Every now and then, I receive a random e-mail from a random person along the lines of, "Hi! I found your blog. Can you tell me how I can live forever?"
Generally I just ignore these letters, as, really, I figure either their authors are credulous beyond all get-out or engaging in some sort of bizarre joke. But seeing as I've received a spate of these comments privately recently, I just wanted to state for the record that if you are looking to random bloggers to "tell you the path to living forever", um, well, you might want to work on those critical thinking skills.
Seriously. Critical thinking is utterly invaluable if you actually care about what reality is actually like. And you don't need to be any kind of super-genius to do it successfully, nor do you need to take special classes in it. There's plenty in the way of free resources, such as:
- The Skeptic's Dictionary has a good page consisting of links to Critical Thinking Mini-Lessons.
(Also check out their Too Good To Be True page for a nifty list of examples of opportunistic pseudoscientists and scammers marketing their crap.)
- A classic: Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit. I learned about this in the very first "Introduction to Engineering" class I took in school, wherein Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark was assigned reading.
- Via Respectful Insolence, a concise summary of how to know you're doing science wrong (emphasis mine):
If you don't make mistakes, you're doing it wrong.
If you don't correct those mistakes, you're doing it really wrong.
If you can't accept that you're mistaken, you're not doing it at all
...and many, many more that you should be able to find pretty easily.
There are also things you can do just in the course of your everyday life to flex your critical thinking abilities and thereby strengthen them. Whenever you encounter a billboard or advert, try considering what is actually being offered versus the emotions being invoked by the ad's imagery, sound effects, etc. Learn to recognize when false causal relationships are being drawn between events and actions, and don't just go along with it when people are doing this. Learn the difference between "rational thinking" and "rationalizing" (e.g., if someone tries to claim that Santa Claus is real, but just doesn't think poor children deserve presents, you've probably got a rationalizer on your hands!).
Heck, if you've got a bit of free time, you can even do "probability experiments" like the ones I did as a kid of about eleven, which entailed flipping coins many, many times and writing down the heads/tails results (this was how I determined that no, I most likely did not have the ability to Use The Force). Sounds silly, but can be very illustrative of (for instance) how having too small a sample set can be misleading, and how more data can reduce the chance of drawing an incorrect conclusion.
Another fun and useful activity is to visit Wikipedia and look up a subject you've seen a lot of people arguing about. Then, in addition to the actual article, read its talk page. Because Wikipedia's stated policy is to present a "neutral point of view", there tends to be a lot of quibbling over how this is to be accomplished, and on what sources are actually acceptable and valid references.
E.g., the talk page for 'Evolution' has a 40-something page archive of discussion and debate between the various parties vying for control of the article's content. Seriously, if you want to see various forms of human reasoning (and rationalizing) in action, these talk pages are a great resource. Moreover, some articles' talk pages nicely illustrate "manufactured controversy" in action, and it is very useful to learn the difference between a real controversy and one that has been "framed" as such by folks with an obvious agenda (case in point: those people who keep saying Obama's birth certificate is a fake).
Anyway, however you do it, the important thing is to get your brain geared up to more accurately assess reality, and the claims people make about it.
See, there are plenty of hucksters out there who would probably be more than willing to sell you their Super-Longevity Bio-Kit or some other quackish nostrum. And despite not being a biologist myself, I think I'm at least informed enough on the subject of biogerontology to be able to tell you that anyone who claims to have the "path to immortality" is either deluded or lying. Hence, taking people who make such claims seriously is likely to be a waste of time for everyone involved, and obviously over time this kind of thing is likely to lead to less actual useful real-world work being done.
I once encountered a person who claimed to know a "real-life immortal", that of course I could learn about only through buying and reading his upcoming book about this person (who had apparently trusted him, the author, with this 'special knowledge'). And I don't believe for a minute that I "missed an opportunity" by dismissing these claims and refusing to let that author hijack the discussion. Now, if that author had acknowledged he'd written a fantasy novel in which he explored the various social and technical implications of extreme longevity through the protagonist, then I might have been interested. But as there was no such acknowledgement, I didn't figure I was losing anything in my reticence to entertain this author's storytelling.
All that said, really it seems preposterous that I should even need to say any of this.
If anyone has Internet access sufficient to permit them to find my blog and e-mail me, they also have access to (in addition to plentiful critical-thinking resources) a tremendous amount of actual scientific writing (and no, I don't mean "press releases", I mean stuff written by biologists and others actually working on interesting scientific/medical quandaries). But the fact that I do get these comments has made me wonder if maybe some people genuinely just don't know this stuff is out there; hence this post.
Many primary sources are locked up in journals you have to pay to read, but if you're really interested you might be able to get access through a local or university library (especially if you're a student). And I've been told by at least one practicing biologist that sometimes if you express interest in a paper, you can get a copy e-mailed to you by its author if you ask politely (note that they do not HAVE to send you a copy, there isn't a law about it, it's just something you can try).
For free (well, free presuming again you have Internet access), you can get a sense of what research is being done by searching the PubMed database for something like "human longevity".
A cursory search for these terms, for instance, reveals (among many others) the following:
- SIRT1 Markedly Extends Replicative Lifespan if NAD(+) Salvage is Enhanced.
- A functional EXO1 promoter variant is associated with prolonged life expectancy in centenarians.
- Increasing longevity through caloric restriction or rapamycin feeding in mammals: common mechanisms for common outcomes?
- Centenarians--a useful model for healthy aging? A 29-year follow-up of hospitalizations among 40,000 Danes born in 1905.
You won't be able to read the full text of very many papers that come up, but you can check out the abstracts in a lot of cases, and even that is going to tell you a heck of a lot more about research reality than asking some random blogger how you can reach the most extreme outcome you can come up with.
(Though of course this only works if you are actually interested in reality, and if you're genuinely serious in asking "how can I live forever?", I have to say I am rather skeptical that this is the case...)
I've written a few pieces that reference some of the Actual Research Being Done(TM), but this has been entirely and (I would think) obviously from the layperson's perspective. I don't have, or pretend at having, any special expert knowledge about longevity...and I sure as heck don't have a pipeline to the Fountain of Youth. Nobody does.
Here in the real world, the best any of us can do if we want longer, healthier lives for our loved ones and ourselves is contribute toward actual real-world things that promote health, life, and solid research. And in order to figure out what projects are valid and worth supporting, or worth proposing and starting ourselves, critical thinking is utterly essential. Learn it, practice it, and use it, and while you probably won't get to enjoy whatever comforts you might have previously been gaining via wishful/magical thinking, you will be better equipped to do things that actually make a positive difference in the real world.
In other words, if you're thinking in terms of "living forever", you're doing it wrong. And if you have any motivation behind this sentiment that actually relates to improving healthcare for people of all ages (including the very elderly), you'd best find a way to ground those motivations in something practical and feasible in the present.
If, however, you're looking for a palliative to your existential angst, sorry, you're going to have to look elsewhere than here.
Tuesday, September 01, 2009
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14 comments:
Anne wrote: "I once encountered a person who claimed to know a "real-life immortal", that of course I could learn about only through buying and reading his upcoming book about this person (who had apparently trusted him, the author, with this 'special knowledge')."
haha I think the movie 'Interview with a Vampire' may have inspired this author.
Dreaming and wishing are great things and they inspire us. You dont make pizza because its the logical thing to do. You make pizza because you love melted cheese. You love the freshness, the green pepper and onions. Sure there is the logical process of baking it at a certain tempreature...but lets not get over excited over the process. Its always about the pizza. I understand that when it comes to expectations for perfect health we have to compromise with existing realities, but it will be our hopes, dreams and wishes that will define what this reality can be. I have a feeling that Anne's favorite Star Trek character is Spock.
Minhaj (Random E-mailer and asker of the question 'how can I live forever?')
Minhaj:
Yes, you were indeed one of the "random e-mailers" but certainly not the only one who has asked me something along the lines of "how can I live forever?" So this post was definitely not directed at you personally and you alone; I figured that if multiple people were asking me questions like that, I might as well put something up in public to clarify my views a bit more on matters pertaining to these questions.
And re. "Interview with the Vampire": ha, possibly that was an inspiration for the author I encountered, though I've never seen that movie (or read the Anne Rice book on which it was based) myself.
[Somewhat tangentially, I do quite enjoy vampire lore (am a huge "Buffy" fan -- the series, not the movie), though, in part because of exactly what I mentioned re. fantasy novels about long-lived characters. It is always fascinating to see how vampire characters deal with things like changes in culture and technology over time, and how the particular vampires certain authors come up with tend to reflect the time and environment in which the stories were written.]
And re. my favorite Star Trek character being Spock: yes, he would be my favorite out of the Original Series crew. Guilty as charged. :P But one reason I think he is a great character is because despite his (and his species') devotion to logic, he is constantly having to deal with an undercurrent of very strong emotion. And Vulcan culture is essentially designed around doing this -- their various and sometimes violent "rituals" have to exist in order to prevent their civilization from essentially exploding.
Also, I would have to disagree about "not getting excited over the process". Life, after all IS a process. All of us spend the vast majority of our time in process. And I don't think this is a bad thing, nor do I find it boring or mundane. I am attempting to write my first science fiction/fantasy novel at the moment (a young-adult story about a girl with a cyborg mother, an antiques-dealer father, and a peculiar talent for getting lost) and while the idea of eventually getting published and hence becoming an actual author myself is certainly cool to think about, it is not the ONLY or even the main reason I am working on this.
The process of coming up with original characters (and not having them all be just like me!) is a huge challenge and a really interesting one at that. The research is interesting -- because of the protagonist's father's occupation, I actually went out to a bunch of antique stores and looked around and took pictures so I would be able to realistically describe certain things in the story.
You know, part of me wonders if maybe the recurring argument I seem to end up in with people (who for some reason perceive me, apparently, as being kind of plodding and unimaginative) stems from the very fact that I am extremely "process-oriented". As a kid people used to tell me it was weird that I read the same books over and over again and I never understood this, but now I wonder if maybe they just couldn't see the appeal when obviously I "already knew what was going to happen".
For me that's kind of not the point...I mean I don't like being given spoilers to mystery stories or anything because it's fun to figure things out the first time through, but I don't consider the story "used up" after that. Some people's writing is just enjoyable to read, and there are always different details to notice each time through, as well as different angles from which to look at things based on one's own ever-growing body of life experience.
All that said, I have no problem saying that of course I (like pretty much everyone else on the planet who isn't suicidally depressed) would rather be alive and healthy than dead or sick and dying. I hope I will still be saying the same thing when I'm a hundred years old, and I would be thrilled to bits if the same ended up being true of my grandparents.
But I am not going to sit here and work my brain up into a frenzy of unproductive loops over things I have absolutely no control over, such as what might happen to any sentient life at the heat death of the universe. I would need to study a lot more physics to even feel justified in pondering that situation with any seriousness. Of course I've sat and fantasized about jumping through "wormholes"...what nerd hasn't...but I don't think that sort of fantasy needs to be called something other than fantasy in order for it to be fun to consider in one's mind.
I think maybe part of what I find problematic about certain sub-cultural trends (note that I am NOT making a blanket statement about "everyone" in any given group here, individuals are individuals no matter what their friends are doing) is in the way fantasy-as-fantasy is actively disdained. I've seen comment threads in various places wherein some folks' attitudes seem to include the notion that science fiction can't just be science fiction anymore, it has to be tied to some kind of massively-scaled military project in order to be a worthwhile endeavor.
Personally I just don't understand that. I don't see why "science fiction" or even "fantasy" tends to get perceived as an insult by some people...as a longtime fan of both these genres (and the places where they intersect), this strikes me as much more of a failure of imagination than whatever it is I'm personally guilty of by figuring real-world efforts ought to consider the practical realities of the real world. (Honestly a lot of the reactions I get remind me of some of those I've gotten from certain religious believers who presume that my life must be gray and empty just because I'm an atheist!)
Many current scientists and engineers were inspired by sf/f (myself included -- you can bet that Star Trek among other fictions had an influence over my decision to go into electrical engineering!), and I think that's a good thing! If someone is inspired by a story or highly ambitious mythical idea and they use that as the fuel for their career or study or volunteer work or whatnot, that's wonderful! Yay for imagination!
But I don't see any need to pretend that going on about "living forever" is likely to have any actual impact on improving healthcare. People can use whatever inspirations they want in their heads, but it's important not to confuse inspirations with scientific ideas or with actually-practical plans for the future.
This doesn't mean that nobody's inspiration-ideas will ever actually come to fruition -- I mean, people wrote about trips to the Moon long before any humans actually went there, and I don't doubt for a minute that the imagery generated by tales like From The Earth to the Moon had a direct influence on actual human endeavors.
I just think that people who presently think they have the power to predict certain extreme outcomes -- as in, people who would actually claim to "know how to live forever", are deluding themselves. And acknowledging that has nothing to do with a disdain for imagination, and everything to do with keeping imaginative speculation and practical action in their appropriate contexts where they can actually have useful, enriching effects rather than confounding ones.
If that makes any sense.
"And acknowledging that has nothing to do with a disdain for imagination, and everything to do with keeping imaginative speculation and practical action in their appropriate contexts where they can actually have useful, enriching effects rather than confounding ones."
I agree with that. I think this distinction is important. Sometimes I do confuse the wanting with the doing. by the way I am writing my first novel! Sometimes wishing takes me so far away from the reality that I dont want to come back to earth and actually do the boring stuff that will lead to the dream coming true. I have been on Oprah, on Larry King and every night I am on Book TV and I talk with Charlie Rose almost daily about my best selling novel (all this happens in my imagination). I need to finish it first.
I think your comment should have been a blog as you touched on the link between fiction and the world of science. Also the the topic of placing imagination and current practical science in context deserves more attention.
I am curious about a cyborg in an antique store! When is the book coming out? Will you throw a webcam futuristic party so we can all celebrate?
Anne, I bet you'd enjoy the fan video where Buffy dusts Edward Cullen -- it's hilarious.
"In other words, if you're thinking in terms of "living forever", you're doing it wrong."
So you think Ray Kurzweil and Aubrey DeGrey are full of it? Sounds like some futurist/transhumanist/life extensionist drama in the making. ;-)
Matthew:
No, no drama here. This is a Drama Free Zone; I can't abide drama or gossip in the least.
That said, yes, I do think Kurzweil is full of it when he goes on about things like potentially re-animating his dead father from a combination of molecules and memories, though. He's invented some cool gadgets but I think he goes out of his actual expertise context way too often.
But I'm not sure why you'd class his and de Grey's assertions in the same category. I have tremendous respect for de Grey's efforts to promote and organize actual longevity research. There is actual laboratory work being done as a result of SENS initiatives, etc. It's not just talking about stuff, or claiming anything is "inevitable". And as far as I know, Aubrey doesn't go around claiming to have "the path to immortality" at all...he recognizes that ANY medical advancement in biogerontology is going to take a lot of hard work, and doesn't go around peddling a line of personal supplements or anything like that.
abfh: Ha, that is awesome! LOL, wow, yes, I do appreciate that link...
As far as I can google, both Kurzweil and DeGrey think reaching "escape velocity" is possible:
De Grey responds:
The “escape velocity” concept is based not on faith but on the history of technology, in which incremental refinements of an initial breakthrough reliably occur at, if anything, an accelerating rate rather than encountering diminishing returns, subject only to sustained public enthusiasm for further progress (which faded with, e.g., space travel but seems dependable in respect of postponing aging).
from:
http://blog.infeasible.org/2009/01/28/refuting-the-longevity-escape-velocity.aspx
Matthew: Regardless of whatever my present conception might be of the value of the expression "escape velocity" (which I won't get into here as I have a headache frankly and don't feel like it), I still have yet to see de Grey express an attitude such as the one I have often seen from Kurzweil.
But that is the last thing that will be said in this post's comments on the subject of those two individuals here in particular -- I think it derails the discussion to get off on tangents about particular individuals who were not even mentioned in my post.
When I first read that Ray Kurzweil thought of "potentially re-animating his dead father from a combination of molecules and memories" I was very moved. Ray's public image is that of a "cold technocrat", but here he reveals a trauma (the death of his father) which is apparently at the heart of his endeavours. The actual feasibility of his wish is a different matter, though. Who would have thought: Ray Kurzweil, the melancholic dreamer!
Which brings us back to minhaj's first comment re: "Dreaming and wishing" :-)
Are there philosopher vampires? What I find frustrating about this aspect of horror (but I've had only limited exposure to the genre) is that mostly vampires show only stunted self-awareness. I admit "personal and intellectual growth" sounds a bit, let's say, awkward in this context but that's exactly what I'm missing in these centuries-old creatures. I understand that the relentlessly cyclical nature of their existence is part and parcel of the myth; still it would be interesting to see vampires which show that they've used their time to read and reflect.
> Every now and then, I receive a
> random e-mail. . . along the lines of,
> "Hi!. . . Can you tell me how I can
> live forever?"
You could more-or-less straight-facedly suggested browsing among the following:
_Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough to Live Forever_
by Ray Kurzweil, Terry Grossman (2004)
http://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Voyage-Live-Enough-Forever/dp/0452286670/
and its sequel
_Transcend: Nine Steps to Living Well Forever_
by Ray Kurzweil Ph.D., Terry Grossman M.D. (2009)
http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Nine-Steps-Living-Forever/dp/B002OBTW98/
For a longer perspective on this sort of thing, you could also mention
_Life Extension: A Practical Scientific Approach_
by Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw (1982)
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Practical-Scientific-Approach/dp/0446387355/
and books by the late Roy L. Walford (participant in the Biosphere 2 experiment, who expected to last longer than I'm afraid he in fact ended up doing), e.g.,
_The 120-Year Diet: How To Double Your Vital Years_
by Roy L. Walford M.D. (1991)
http://www.amazon.com/One-Hundred-Twenty-Year-Diet/dp/0671744747/
Note that I do not necessarily endorse any of these authors' views. ;->
> I do quite enjoy vampire lore. . .
> in part because of exactly what I
> mentioned re. fantasy novels about
> long-lived characters.
And Elves, of course. Let's not forget about Elves! ;->
_The Lord of the Rings_ is, among other things, a meditation on the subjects of death and immortality.
"Tell me, stranger: life is -- why therefore should not life be lengthened for a while? What are ten or twenty or fifty thousand years in the history of life? ... There is naught that is wonderful about the matter... Life is wonderful, ay, but that it should be a little lengthened is not wonderful. Nature hath her animating spirit as well as man, who is Nature's child, and he who can find that spirit, and let it breathe upon him, shall live with her life. He shall not live eternally, for Nature is not eternal; and she herself must die, even as the nature of the moon has died... But when shall she die? Not yet, I ween, and while she lives, so shall he who hath all her secret live with her."
"Ah, how little knowledge does a man acquire in his life. He gathereth it up like water, but like water it runneth through his fingers, and yet, if his hands be but wet as though with dew, behold a generation of fools call out, 'See, he is a wise man!'"
-- Ayesha, She-who-must-be-obeyed,
to L. Horace Holly
in H. Rider Haggard's _She_
(an acknowledged influence on
Tolkien).
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