I tend to see tools as extensions of the self. Tools are not friends or pets, but ME.
This is a good working definition of "tools", and one I thank Mr. Welch for reminding me of. Thinking of tools in this way -- as a particular class of objects that can serve as extensions of self (or extensions of will, perhaps) -- is very useful, particularly when viewing the "person" as embedded in and part of the environment, as opposed to somehow distant from it.
This actually isn't very far from a favorite bit of personal philosophy (it's even in my blog profile): I am a small piece of the universe observing itself. I see all people and things as simultaneously discrete and joined -- if I had to sculpt a geometric model of reality (a daunting task if there ever was one!), one possible model might resemble a big rubber sheet pulled to tiny points in some areas, stretched thin in others, pushed to a smooth roundness in still others, etc. Basically, while parts of the sheet would certainly have their own identities and local characteristics, and while each part would consequently be an entity in its own right, all parts and the interconnections between them would still comprise a larger entity.
Sticking with that model for now, let's say a person is initially represented by a point on the sheet pulled sharply upward. As this person grows, develops, learns, and interacts with the other local surface irregularities, relationships will be established with those irregularities. Depending on the type and nature of each irregularity, the relationship between it and the person will effectively change the shape of the person in some way. Some irregularities might make the person-representing point poke out further from the plane of the sheet, whereas others might smooth it out and draw it closer.
Yet all the while, the person maintains a sense of continuity, and certain aspects of his trajectory through time will always show the influence of his initial conditions. Just as the sheet itself provides fertile ground for a tremendous diversity of individual forms, each person-point is simultaneously capable of evolving in any of a fantastic array of directions and of maintaining a distinct sense of continuous personhood.
Along these lines, Nato continues in his comment:
You may command and own your body in that same fashion as you might "ruthlessly" dispose of tools. We see that as fundamental right.
In reading this statement, I get a much clearer idea of how tools in particular might differ from other machines (or beings, for that matter). Invoking the "sheet model" again, tools would represent those irregularities that can be effectively "absorbed" by the person-points to the point of becoming part of them. Similarly, tools can also be discarded and/or removed when the person no longer finds them useful, or when they begin to pose some problem.
The "body" over time cannot be said to be a static clod of matter -- rather, the body is a dynamic process that winds its way through spacetime, memory and sensation incrementally bridging the piecewise generations of cellular turnover. In some respects, cells and eyeglasses and hair and prosthetic limbs and tattoos and iPods and lungs are all of the same ilk: things that individually are not persons, but that can be aspects of persons that in turn define those persons -- at least on a moment to moment basis.
Basically, I concur with Nato that each person -- each body -- should indeed be considered to have a fundamental right to self-configure. And at this point I'd be willing to suggest that tools (if defined as non-autonomous objects that can nonetheless merge with -- and become part of -- autonomous entities) figure heavily into this process.

Nato also makes an interesting observation about robots. He writes on this subject:
It's common for people to confront the concept of robots as others, as, literally, autonomous automatons (auto meaning "self"). But personally, they made much more sense when I started conceiving of them in the traditional sense of extensions of their users. And indeed, the most prominent uses of robots we have today, before we really have any generally competent software to make them useful as truly autonomous entities, is in capacities where they are remotely controlled as untethered extensions of the bodies of remote operators.
I personally do tend to think of robots (at least in theory) as "autonomous automatons", but this is probably my sci-fi sensibilities coming through. Nato is right in noting that today's robots are not autonomous -- every robot I've ever made the acquaintance of in real life has been either an industrial robot, a toy, or an experimental "kit" bot equipped with a few sensors and/or actuators.
And even the more impressive "robots" I've heard of (such as the DARPA Grand Challenge cars) haven't been autonomous in the sense that humans, many animals, and fictional robots (like R2D2) are -- at best, they can do one thing quite well, but they aren't capable of deciding they'd rather do something else, and it seems to me unlikely that they've experienced existential despair over this fact.
Part of what was lingering in the back of my mind as I wrote my prior post was the question of why, if at all, humans might want to actually build truly autonomous machines. I've observed, as Nato has, that humans tend strongly to use technology prosthetically. That is, as the collective pool of knowledge about How Stuff Works (and How To Make Stuff Do Other Stuff) grows over time and is communicated more effectively to more and more people, the trend has been toward applications that allow people to assert their ideas, desires, and will over a greater distance, or with greater strength, or with greater precision, than was feasible before the adoption of the application. The trend has not been toward trying to (forgive the terminology) "ensoul" machines (except perhaps in the context of university lab projects, none of which have exactly panned out in that direction so far).
I'm not going to get into the whole debate over whether it is or is not possible to "create consciousness" in a substrate other than an animal brain. Intuitively, my sense is that consciousness is not a substrate-dependent phenomenon, but I don't know nearly enough about neuroscience or robotics to make any strong claims, so I'm content for now to keep reading and watching what the relevant research reveals.
But in any case, that debate is irrelevant to the question of whether humans would want autonomous automatons running around. The world is already pretty well populated by autonomous agents (animals), and half the time it seems like humans are more concerned with trying to decrease the autonomy of these agents than with increasing it. Hence, the idea of large groups of humans deciding to create autonomous robots and "release them into the wild" for the sake of allowing new life to flourish seems a mite farfetched.
Plus, there's the ethical problem with creating an autonomous entity in a lab -- as far as I'm concerned, once you've established that an entity is autonomous, you have no right to keep it confined (in a lab or otherwise), nor is it acceptable to subject it to non-consensual or coerced experimentation. This fact alone makes it seem unlikely to me that truly autonomous robots are going to be a major human goal anytime in the foreseeable future -- right now, robots outside the movies are pretty much thought of as being "tools" (extensions of human will), and people don't want their tools to talk back or say "No!".
Part of what is meant by some uses of the word "progress" is a kind of ongoing emancipatory process that involves seeking to recognize more and varied forms of personhood, to develop and provide tools that assist with individual flourishing, and to ensure that new technological developments (or proposed developments) benefit more than a few privileged folks. So while I certainly enjoy talking and thinking about robots, and while I would be overjoyed to someday wander through bright jungles populated by colorful mechanical fauna who have been set free to flourish as beings in their own right (rather than as means to some "end"), I think it's important to stay grounded in the present when considering what actions would likely lead to the greatest progress in the sense described above.
"Real" autonomous robots would in effect be non-tools. And non-tools (people, other autonomous entities, etc.) cannot be used, absorbed, and/or discarded by others in the sense that tools can. One reason I find myself intrigued by "roboethics" discussions these days is actually tied into the very real civil rights struggles faced by already-existing persons. And again with the disclaimer that this is a science fiction scenario, I can't help but wonder whether humans are at the point of being able to recognize very atypical persons (such as sentient robots would be) as non-tools. My guess is "not quite", and I see a potential (if not exactly immanent) danger of people creating entities that are autonomous and sentient, but that are not acknowledged as such.
It's not as if there isn't a precedent for this. Some of the worst abuses in history have been perpetuated as a result of people trying to use, absorb, and ignore or deny the personhood and autonomy of other people. Ethnic minorities, women, children, disabled persons, and individuals of any configuration in positions of disadvantage for whatever reason have all had to deal with being treated like tools (in the sense of being considered non-autonomous, and only worth what they can "produce", whether it be slave labor, sons to carry on the family lineage, or in the case of disabled persons, "proof" of full personhood in the first place).
And this isn't something we're exactly past as a species yet.
Regardless of the general sense I still have that all things in reality have a kind of "character" to them, I'm well aware that some things are tools, and that people are not tools, though tools can be extensions of people. Robots, perhaps, are interesting because they stand in a strange area where they have the potential to be considered either non-autonomous things or people (or both, context permitting!), depending on what direction the research goes in.
And given this, I think that anyone who finds himself or herself obsessing over "robot rights" would do very well to learn a bit more about general civil rights. Not only is a much greater consciousness of civil rights gravely needed in the present, but it is going to be vital to broaden the common concept of what a full person is if anyone really wants to see the kind of wide-ranging prosthetically-enabled vibrant diversity that may at least become physically feasible within the lifetimes of many alive today.
18 comments:
Just as a disclaimer: I don't literally and actually think reality is "a big rubber sheet". I don't think reality can effectively be "reduced" to any particular simplifying model; all models are way, way more limited than the whole of reality ever could be. But sometimes I find it useful to invoke models in order to demonstrate how a particular idea might be visualized, the same way people sometimes find it useful to draw graphs and diagrams on the whiteboard during meetings.
I don't know how effective it is when I attempt to write like this, so this post is kind of an experiment in that regard. I figured I'd try writing (at least for part of this post) at a more visually descriptive level than I normally do. I actually think in very visual, textural, graphical forms most of the time as opposed to verbal ones, and even writing tends to be a process of attempting to describe what I "see" in my head when I think.
When it comes to personhood in the context of robots or AI, I find it seldom recognized and yet enormously useful to consider the fact that artificial persons have, in fact, a very old precedent in our societies: We call them corporations. They're not built of software code, but of legal code.
They're not entirely autonomous, but it turns out that partial autonomy itself turns out to be enormously useful for the purpose of limiting liability.
You present a lot of interesting contexts in which to consider forms of personhood in this post, and I was fascinated to look at corporate personhood in each of them.
eg: in pursuit of "recognizing more and varied forms of personhood" (a part of progress as you define it here), would you endorse the corporation as just such a form, or would you tend more toward other politically progressive tendencies in favoring that corporations not be considered "legal persons"?
If you do think corporations deserve rights, do you consider their relative subjugation to the command of stockholders to be a kind of slavery that makes the corporation into a tool (as they were doubtless originally intended)? Or would you tend, instead, to think of the corporation in its original tool context, and thus reject the idea that it should be considered a person at all - perhaps to the point that it effectively loses its usefulness as a way to limit liability?
Class War With the Machines is a bit of an old post of mine, but still an effective provocation, I hope.
Worrying about robot rights is indeed a bit premature when one considers how many existing civil rights issues need to be resolved. It does make for some interesting conversations and stories, though.
Nato, because a corporation is merely a legal fiction, I don't see how it can be anything other than a tool. It certainly doesn't have "personhood" in the sense of being self-aware, which I think is what Anne means by the term. A "legal person" is another concept entirely; it refers mainly to the ability to sue and be sued.
Star Trek had an excellent episode on the meaning of personhood, The Measure of a Man, in which a court hearing is held on the question of whether Lt. Data, as an android, has the civil rights of a person.
This is a very interesting topic. A bit beyond me however. :) I do enjoy reading your posts and learning about things I would not normally think about. The comments are interesting too.
This was another enjoyable post!
I'm beginning to notice some similarities between you and my brother--he is also a devoted fan of Star Wars and Star Trek, to the point that during a Jeapardy type game in his Video classes, the answer to a question about Star Wars was "Whatever Fred's Answer Was" or something like that. ^__^
All humorous remarks to the side, I noted that you say your personal philosophy is "existence without which the world would tumble and collapse" which, I believe, is a quote from Swiftly Tilting Planet by Madeleine L'engle (R.I.P.), and is the english translation of a Sanskrit word, Ananda. Ananda is the name of my pet cat (Annie), so that's how I knew that. Annie is better of not knowing that she was named after a dog! ;)
While I was reading your analogy for the world, I was thinking of my own, which would be an oversized Basketball because it is both spherical and it is dimpled, each dimple representing an individual person. Though I wonder what the lines on the ball would be considered to be...
Your remarks about Autonomos Automatons reminded me of Frankenstein (which, contrary to popular belief, is the name of the scientist, not the Monster. The Monster does not have a name). Frankenstein considered his work to be artistic as well as scientific, and didn't realize how horrible it was until he'd finished it. The entire novel is an impressive commentary on bioethics (organ doning and autopsies were both considered completely immoral at first) and on the emphasis society puts on superficial characteristics.
Something that I think might be of personal interest to you about the novel is how the Monster was considered to be dim and savage, but was actually very intelligent and aware; it was simply that he had a horrific appearance that resulted in his isolation and exile. Then his anger and desire for revenge grew so great that he began killing people.
There's also the fact that Frankenstein went on to build a second monster, which is commentary the human tendency to not learn from their mistakes (the multiple non-ending and turmoil causing wars that the US has been involved in, falling for the same abusive alcoholic again and again, creating even more destructive nuclear/hydrogen type weapons, etc.).
Your discussion of autonomous automaton reminded me of this book, but it also reminded me of neuroplasticity (the ability to regrow a certain type of brain cells, or something like that). If doctors ever learn how to apply this technique, that means they could probably learn how to clone brain cells. That might lead to individualistic robots. I don't think this (or any other) society is ready for these kind of robots, so this makes me feel a little nervous. We haven't even convinced Sudan to hand over the Darfur criminals, how on earth will we learn how to cooperate with robots? I'll bet we'd treat them the same way we treated (and still do in some respects) African Americans--like their tools. Tools that are separate from us and lowly. Gaah!
Hello Anne,
You might like this quote:
"According to science historian Yves Gingras, the world in which we live is a product of human reason. It is the combination of technique and reason which gives birth to technology. Homo sapiens being homo faber, everything that surrounds him can only be artificial that is to say craftwork. In this precise sense, the human animal is necessarily counter-nature, anti-nature, the most paradoxical product of Nature. He has become, in sum, a homo technologicus."
de Thezier: Would you mind giving the source for that comment? Right now you're plagiarizing, and I can question the source of that quote and whether or not it comes from a credible source.
Human beings, however rational they like to think they are, are ultimately controlled by the biochemical processes that are going on in their genes. These processes were designed to keep the individual alive and to make sure that they mate and pass along their genes. Furthermore, it is generally accepted in psychology that we do *not* act out on our emotions, but rather that our emotions are the result of our actions. For example, we are sad because we are crying; we are angry because we got into a fist fight; we are happy because we laughed.
Depression, by the way, is caused by chemical imbalances in a specific region of the brain, which is why it is classified as an illness and not an emotion. It is not the same as a reactive emotion like the ones described above.
Humans have strived to become more enlightened and more people, yet we still fight over fights that are centuries old (Isreal/Palestine, land ownership, general overall power, etc.), we still kill massive numbers of our enemies in appalling ways, and we still want to be King of the Hill instead of agreeing to a Mediated compromise. The only difference is that we can kill more people more efficiently (those of us who have read The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova will remember Dracula praising the US for their use of the Nuclear Bomb. That scene did an excellent job of analyzing the many more ways humans have of harming eachother instead of coming together in peaceful acceptance).
And yet you call us the animal of reason?
I'll respond to other comments later, but I did want to quickly say to kakalina: I don't think deThezier was trying to express that he agreed with the whole quote, he was just posting it in case it was of interest.
Sorry--I was referring to the man/woman/automaton who said the quote, not the person who proffered it, though I'd be interested to know whether de thezier agreed with it.
kakalina: Would you mind giving the source for that comment? Right now you're plagiarizing, and I can question the source of that quote and whether or not it comes from a credible source.
It's the summary of In Praise of the Homo Technologicus, a book written by Yves Gingras, a prominent Canadian historian of science and technology, which can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_technologicus
kakalina: Sorry--I was referring to the man/woman/automaton who said the quote, not the person who proffered it, though I'd be interested to know whether de thezier agreed with it.
uh, you can easily find out more about me by clicking on my name or my picture.
That being said, I haven't read Gingras' book so I don't to know whether his well-researched arguments (which are the basis for the summary of the book) are sound. Until I do, I prefer to suspend judgement.
Interesting posts. If you want to build a sturdy foundation for roboethics though, there are several fundamental problems to address first.
1) What do you mean by autonomous? As far as I can tell from your post, it seems that autonomy, according to your philosophy, is the ability to make decisions for one's self. However, what does this mean? It seems to me that if everything is contingent upon determining material processes, then everything is determined and true decisions don't exist.
Free will is defined as the power of the will to determine itself and to act of itself, without compulsion from within or coercion from without. It is the faculty of an intelligent being to act or not act, to act this way or another way, and is therefore essentially different from the operations of irrational beings that merely respond to a stimulus and are conditioned by sensory objects.
However, how could we determine if a robot had these qualities? I know you said you didn't really want to debate whether we can "manufacture" consciousness, but I'm not sure how this topic can be avoided.
2) How do you differentiate a person from his/her/its surrounding environment? Where is the line going to be drawn?
3)Why do people have rights? After all, civil rights refers to those privileges and permits granted to certain individuals by government. From your post, I think you mean to say inalienable rights, not civil rights. Inalienable rights are priviliges and permits that all persons everywhere and at all times ought to have. Why do certain beings have these rights? Why don't other beings have them? Most importantly of all, why should we respect these rights, especially if they occasionally conflict with our individual self-interests? If autonomous robots existed, why would we be obligated to treat them in a certain manner, and not in another?
Now, you could say, treat them as you'd want to be treated. Why? You might also object, "what if you were them?" But...I'm not.
Your post has some nice poetry to it, but I think you need to back some of your ideas up a bit more.
Nato said:
...artificial persons have, in fact, a very old precedent in our societies: We call them corporations. They're not built of software code, but of legal code.
I've done some reading on "corporate personhood" since reading your comment, and honestly, I'm kind of befuddled by the concept. I mean, I can understand that from a legal standpoint, looking at the corporation as some kind of "entity" probably simplifies things and helps account for the fact that the actions of a corporation don't generally reflect the work of only one person acting alone.
But trying to bolster the status of corporations as "legal persons" does seem pretty anti-progressive to me, and I definitely wouldn't be in favor of that.
I probably need to spend some time fleshing out what exactly my "personhood theory" consists of, because without having done that, I'm having a hard time coming up with a coherent explanation of what it would mean to recognize "more and varied forms of personhood", and why I don't think corporations are persons in the sense of my interpretation of personhood.
But it has something to do with the fact that corporations seem more like giant battle-mechas with high-level executives sitting in the pilots' seat (and the rest of the employees down below, working to keep the mecha moving without ever necessarily knowing what it's doing) than like, say, individual humans, dolphins, or elephants.
Or would you tend, instead, to think of the corporation in its original tool context, and thus reject the idea that it should be considered a person at all - perhaps to the point that it effectively loses its usefulness as a way to limit liability?
Sort of. As mentioned earlier, I think it can be expedient legally to consider corporations as "entities that can be sued/regulated", because the alternative would seem to be a very messy one -- one in which particular individuals' specific roles in whatever activity prompted the legal action in the first place would need to be rooted out and proven.
I do think there need to be ways to deal legally with corporations as collective entities, but I don't think the answer is to call them "persons" -- I think that's kind of a force-fit that gives the wrong connotations, regardless of what philosophical case anyone might be able to make for complex emergent behavior on the part of a corporation.
abfh said: Nato, because a corporation is merely a legal fiction, I don't see how it can be anything other than a tool. It certainly doesn't have "personhood" in the sense of being self-aware, which I think is what Anne means by the term.
Yes, self-awareness is definitely a big part of what I commonly think of as "personhood". I think self-awareness can be difficult to prove, and in general I advocate liberal assumptions on the side of "presuming self-awareness" as far as ethics policy goes (though I am still very much pro-choice) but corporations seem to fall pretty well outside the category of entities even I'd call "persons" to be on the safe side.
Even the legal definition of corporations as "persons" doesn't say or suggest anything about self-awareness; as you noted, a "legal person" can sue and be sued, but that's it.
And I liked "The Measure of a Man" a lot.
Marla: Well, most of the stuff I'm discussing here feels very much beyond me, too -- one reason I write is because it helps me process complex subjects better. When it comes to "personhood" stuff, there's a lot of tie-in to not only the sci-fi/robot stuff I like, but into civil rights and neuroscience and philosophy. Even before I knew I was on the autistic spectrum, I knew that sometimes people saw me differently than they saw each other -- when kids would bully me they genuinely seemed to have no clue that I had thoughts and feelings (if they had, they probably wouldn't have thrown sticks at me).
In part as a result of this, I've always tended to identify strongly with robot and alien characters in science fiction, especially when they've been put in the position to have to prove that they really have feelings, etc. So it's a "fun" interest but a serious one as well.
Kakalina said: I'm beginning to notice some similarities between you and my brother--he is also a devoted fan of Star Wars and Star Trek, to the point that during a Jeapardy type game in his Video classes, the answer to a question about Star Wars was "Whatever Fred's Answer Was" or something like that. ^__^
Hehe, I wish we'd had games like that in my school. I actually got in trouble in around 5th/6th grade for basically focusing all my school assignments (and, for a while, my conversations) around Star Wars, to the point where my parents got called in about it, and the teacher wouldn't let me write about Star Wars anymore for the whole rest of the year.
I had all the movie dialogue basically memorized, too (still do!). I wonder who would win a trivia contest between me and your brother -- he probably would if he's gotten into the prequels more (episodes I, II, and III) -- while I didn't think they were as bad as some people said, my heart belongs to the original trilogy, for sure. :)
All humorous remarks to the side, I noted that you say your personal philosophy is "existence without which the world would tumble and collapse" which, I believe, is a quote from Swiftly Tilting Planet by Madeleine L'engle (R.I.P.)
Yes, that is correct. I wrote a memorial post last year for L'Engle which you might be interested in.
While I was reading your analogy for the world, I was thinking of my own, which would be an oversized Basketball because it is both spherical and it is dimpled, each dimple representing an individual person. Though I wonder what the lines on the ball would be considered to be...
Well, I was thinking in terms of not just the world (Earth) but the whole of reality, but there are some theories as well that the universe itself is spherical. Personally my suspicion is that it's got some shape to it that extends beyond three spatial dimensions (based on stuff I've read about the behavior of light in space, etc.)
Your remarks about Autonomos Automatons reminded me of Frankenstein
I've never read the original Frankenstein novel, but I know the basic premise of the story (as you described) through exposure to popular culture and essays on the subject. While it isn't wholly progressive by today's standards, it was amazingly groundbreaking for its time -- not to mention the fact that it was written by a woman in an era when women probably weren't assumed capable of thinking about things like bioethics.
I don't think this (or any other) society is ready for these kind of robots, so this makes me feel a little nervous. We haven't even convinced Sudan to hand over the Darfur criminals, how on earth will we learn how to cooperate with robots? I'll bet we'd treat them the same way we treated (and still do in some respects) African Americans--like their tools. Tools that are separate from us and lowly. Gaah!
Yeah, I pretty much agree with this assessment, though judging from the state of the science as I understand it right now, we don't seem to be in "danger" of creating a self-aware-yet-oppressed "robotic slave class" anytime soon.
I think that we humans definitely need to start by working to bolster the civil rights of people who already exist, since the civil rights struggle most certainly did not end when schools were desegregated.
De Thezier: My sentiments are sort of opposite to that quote -- I see humans as part of nature, and everything we do as expressing nature. We're not supernatural, after all!
annec said:
My sentiments are sort of opposite to that quote -- I see humans as part of nature, and everything we do as expressing nature. We're not supernatural, after all!
Well, I don't think Gingras is arguing that humans are supernatural but paradoxical products of Nature.
If living and nonliving parts of the earth is a complex interacting system that can be thought of as a single organism, where all living things have a regulatory effect on the Earth's environment that promotes life overall, it is the capacity of humans to consciously overcome the initial impositions of nature which makes their effect on this environment relatively unique.
If you or anyone else is interested, we can continue this conversation on my blog.
http://vangarde.blogspot.com/2008/01/in-praise-of-homo-technologicus.html
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